IS THE KARACHI’S DEBATERS FRATERNITY OUT OF ENGLISH DECLAMATORY SPEAKERS?
OR WE HAVE LESS OPPORTUNITIES AND APPRECIATION FOR ENGLISH SPEAKERS?
What i have been observing for the last few days as agha hassan abedi declamation contest 2018 is coming nearer, Many urdu Speakers are in search of an English speakers.
Are we out of English speakers?
Or we have less opportunities and appreciation for eng speakers?
Or all english speakers usually shift towards urdu?
And why our speakers do not carry English and urdu speaking parallel to each other?
MAY BE… this has to do with English being regarded as a “Ghulamon wali zuban” and the limelight being awarded to Urdu due to it being a National language.
OR MAY BE BECAUSE …There are hardly any competitions or avenues for the promotion of public speakers who deem English as their forté.
OR The restriction that teams must have a serious and a humorous speaker have also rendered most English speakers helpless. Since most people go for an English humorous and Urdu serious combination. This also discourages a lot of people who have the potential but cannot generate humorous content all the time
ALSO, Most of the students who have the potential to speak efficiently in English have moved to the “MUN-ing circle”.
OR MAY BE Urdu speakers are more commercially successful when it comes to media attention and shows participation.
- I wonder how many English convential debates do we have .
- Hardly any! The last Conventional debate I attended or heard of, was by NED in late 2016.
- Exactly every month there’s Urdu convential debate.
I THINK THE MAIN REASON IS WE ARE TOO JUGDEMENTAL WITH THE ENGLISH SPEAKERS AND WE NEED TO PROVIDE TRAINING SESSIONS FOR THE ENGLISH SPEAKERS PLUS WE SHOULD INTRODUCE FREE STYLE SPEAKING
In my opinion the actual dilemma is that we don’t have students who can speak English fluently and have a good vocab. Public speaking is a skill that can be seen and polished in many ways but working on someone’s linguistic skills can’t be polished just by giving them public speaking training sessions. It has to be from the person him/herself. I profoundly admire people who prefer to opt for bilingual public speaking.
One more thing is that we don’t see English debates alone as a competition. There are very few and mostly organised by organisations rather than educational institutions. And the nonsense compulsion of a team comprising of one Urdu and one English speaker, leave the team with no choice other than sending the English speaker in humorous category which is actually good for nothing. I personally encourage my students to team up as English serious and Urdu humourous to give a good ground for English speakers coz we already have more Urdu serious opportunities in form of Urdu debates.
Cross category often proves to be a baygon to the talent mosquito.
Because one has to sacrifice his interest most of the times.
Infact this is a common observation and my personal experience that a team having a combo of English serious and Urdu humourous speaker has a brighter chance of winning the team trophy.
I give credit to Sir Syed College in this regard.
Their competition sort of eradicated the typicality.
English speakers shifting towards urdu.
Where there seems an opportunity urdu speakers chip in just to experience cause they are more connected with the platforms and here English speakers keep waiting for an opportunity.
- A good example of this would definitely be The Great Debate that has been taking place since 3 years now.
- At Sir Syed University at least, (idk about the other editions of it) more than 20 people showed up for the debate which was completely in English, But then again, there were some Urdu speakers who had moulded themselves into English for the sake of debate or for the prize, But I was glad to see such a turnout nonetheless.
“This shows that the talent and potential is not that which lacks. It is the opportunity.”
- We do appreciate SSUET for this.
- MUN is quite an exclusive format and its being in English is due to the reason that this is imported one. Although we have started MUN in Urdu here but it’s just to expanding the vision, for, those who wanna compete abroad must be fluent in English.Speaking style and tones (Indian, Paki, Arabic, Spanish, African, Russian, Chinese, Philippino, Australian or whatever) is never taken as negation in marking, internationally. Everywhere the itellect in content is judged.
- Just we are the fools here to negate the pronunciation marks.
- SO, is the pronunciation not important? I agree the accent and tone do not matter as much. But isn’t pronunciation an integral part of a language?
- If a baloch or pathan or punjabi debater comes before me and he pronounce a word, say SCHOOL, in his own way but the sense of matter is ok, then, should I deduct his marks as a Judge…? No.Mind it; I am not talking of accent (lehja), I am specific about pronunciation (talaffuz).
- Check Youtube and search Toastmasters International’s free-style-speech competitions, wherein Arabic speakers have won despite using the pronunciation of TRUE as ترو instead ٹرو…
- No court takes the typing mistake as a negation in consideration of pros and cons, unless it does not create the change of meaning outrightly.
Our debating judges hardly understand these international norms. They are just Grammar Nazis and Pronunciation Crazy. A bunch of duffers, with a due excuse. They disqualify very relevent and important content giving students just because of their sick mentality. Sorry.
- My point was exactly which is yours.
If the pronunciation of the word changes the meaning or makes the word meaningless to everyone who hears it, shouldn’t that matter?
A speaker was on the mic before me, giving a humorous speech on the topic, “Boss! Main ny aap ko bola kya hai?”…. His content was so marvelous that he rocked all the audience there.But he was continuously pronouncing BOSE BOSE…. And he was saying PAYPSI COLA instead of PEPSI COLA…. Should I, as a judge, disqualify him???
- LIKEWISE, In Germany, they say AMIYAGHICA امیاغِکا instaed of the AMERICA…. This pronunciation is totally different. In France, they pronounce CH as ش instead of چ …..
- Should a judge disqualify him on the basis of WRONG PRONUNCIATION, if it is spoken at some international speech competition???
- Urdu is native language here so this must not be compared with a non-native language, when it comes to excellence. Judges must be flexible in their rigidity of marking.
The organisers keep same prize for serious vis-a-vis humorous categories. What the hell is this to compare a serious speaker with the humorous one? Two are 180 degrees different in nature. This is the reason that teams are mostly comprise of Urdu serious with English humorous. And we find rare winning English humorous speakers. Foreign humor is explicitly different from the one understood here and this is due difference in social behaviours in different geographic norms. Although some humor or gestures are equally understood by the audience all over the world, but it’s rare, actually.
- We as judges are in utmost displeasure when we’re ranking urdu humourous and serious on the same grounds. Totally ridiculous.
REMARKS OF DEBATOR:
” I had been a crazy-like humorous speaker in my early speaking career and spoke at tens of contests. But prizes…. Zero.
When when I tried serious genre, prizes started like it was raining cats and dogs.
I always request the organisers to keep separate prizes for serious and humorous. Everyone agrees but damn cares.”
I started as a humorous speaker because of the ever popular sacrifice and made it to a very few victories. Once I started urdu declamations and debates i found a new talent in myself. Because of this urdu humourous sacrifice, our urdu speakers are frustrated when it comes to declamations.. they don’t get a chance of speaking their talent out..
I suggested so many a times to keep 4 different categories; viz., Urdu Declamation (Serious) with Urdu Declamation (Humorous) as one team for individual prize and a team trophy; and English Declamation (Serious) with English Declamation (Humorous) ) as one team for individual prize and a team trophy. Then see the flooding talent of students. But…. But…. Who cares? I got the reply k janab char muqablon k liye baara judges kahan sy laayen gay?
See that is the problem. In declamation, we have categories of marks like dramatisation and all. From where the heck should I consider humourous speech to contain dramatisation as one does in serious. This is totally unequal and unjustified.
And why bara judges? Judges would be the same, criteria would be different.
And yes… Char muqablon k liye 16 inamat (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th for each category) kaun sponsor karega..? Phir 2 team trophies kahan sy laayen? Aur 2 separate days aik students week mein kesay adjust hongay? etc..etc..etc… Ab main bolon k na bolon…
12 prizes nahi to 8 hone chahye.
2 for each category
2 for each category???? 3rd aur 4th aanay waalay students ka kya qusoor hai meray bhai?
There has been always a consolation prize. These days i don’t find them very often. Bs 1st 2nd 3rd bat khtm.
Talking about the minimum wese to sabke alag hone chahye
Exaactllyyy that is the real problem. Ik hi team trophy mushkil se niklti hy uska b mayaar ab plastic zada hochuka hy… herat hoti hy jb aap mujhy judge kiya krty thy back in 2008 OR 2009 through back to team trophy itni wazni hoti thi k hum se akely uthti nae thi…
Jab organisers food, photography, composing, printing, bouquets, publicity, tent/decoration, aur khud beauty parlour jaanay py kharcha kar saktay hein tu bachon ko 4th prize nahin dey saktay..? Shabash hai yar.
I admire Sir Syed Government Girls College as it holds eng and urdu competition apart and has prizes for each category ie: humor and serious
And one more point is that the organisers, whenever announce an English Debate, they receive lesser entries as compares to the situation if they had announced an Urdu Debate.
Urdu serious mostly grab the prize and English humorous does not. And the senders are interested in achieving more prizes, you know.
And it is a harsh fact that we have very a few judges here who can exactly judge English humor. If some are available, then even, each one was not a winning debater of his/her past. Being an English poet or columnist or cartoonist or lecturer or so, doesn’t qualify him/her to become Judge of English Humorous Debate until and unless he/she had not been a winning debater of his/her time.
True. It is a big lack of concept by the organisers. Reason… The cheif deciding officer, himself, has perhaps never been a winning debater. Rather never participated in any speech competition in his own student life. Just seen those programs. He just follows the past policy and remain careful about provincial quotas and that’s all.
If I am a senior classical singer, should I be invited to judge as to which aeroplane would be THE BEST for airforce….? (Yes. Why not? Committee should be comprised of one representative from each province.. Apni tu nikal parri, bhai.
A lot of the times Urdu judges judge English competitions because the organizers probably couldn’t find any.
This makes me cringe to the extreme.
It is conditional, in my opinion. If you see him judging Urdu genre most of the time, and he or she himself/herself has been a winning speaker in English genre as well, during his/her student life, then I think there is no issue, whether he/she is judging Urdu or English.
In any case, I feel grieved that a person who had not won even a single competition in past, is seen judging you people. It is somehow like a poet judging the wrestlers or a musician judging the paintings competition or a cricketer judging theater etc…
When an English debater does not get a prize in any joint competition, he/she gets discouraged and turns towards the Urdu debating genre. In Urdu debates, then, he/she wins hundreds of prizes. This is a blunt fact and I saw a living example that Shah Nihal started as an English speaker but he was so beyond norms that judges could not grip what was said and when he tried the same (beyond norms technique) in Urdu speeches, he started winning one after the other. Although he is expert in both, but his school/college/university has been interested only in his prize-winning results. Now his English debating desires are fulfilled only in MUNs and British & Asian Parliamentary Debates.
AN ENGLISH DEBATORS REMARKS:
“I got told off by a very famous judge once to tone down my vocab because “English speech sab ko samajh ani chahiye. Itne motay alfaz kisi ko samajh nahi atay”
IDREES GHAZI (https://www.facebook.com/idrees.ghazi.92)
- Works at Public Health Engineering Department Sindh
- Artist/Member at Arts Council of Pakistan Karachi
- Former Former PS to various Ministers at Government of Sindh
- Former Deputy Director at National Accountability Bureau -NAB Karachi
- Former Section Officer (Tech), Local Govt Deptt at Govt of sindh
- Former Broadcaster at Radio Pakistan News
- Former Planning Officer, P&D Department at Govt of sindh
- Former Research Officer, NTRC at Planning Commission, Government of Pakistan
- Former Project Engineer (CIVIL) at The Dawood Foundation
- Studied at NED University of Engineering and Technology
BALAJ AWAN ( TABANI’S SCHOOL OF ACCOUNTANCY)
SHUMAILA SAMAD KHAN (Biotechnologist by profession. Public Speaker by passion. Lecturer in University of Karachi)
MOMIN NAQVI (SIR SYED UNIVERSITY OF ENGINEERING AND TECHNOLOGY )(https://www.facebook.com/naqvimomin)
SIR SYED UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY AND ENGINEERING.
SIR SYED GIRLS COLLEGE